Even God is not perfect....
On a close inspection the biblical God is not omniscient.The prophet Ezra knew that.God says to him: The signs thou askest for, I can only answer in part. But about thy life I can tell thee nothing, for i do not know it myself." Nor is the biblical God free of errors! In Genesis,God at first says that his work, namely the creation of man, is good:
"And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good,"--Genesis 1:31 But soon regretted his achievement:
"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the Earth, and it grieved him at his heart."--genesis 6:6
In other words God is not certain about what he has done. Finally his handiwork seems to have failed so badly that he destroyes his own creation by unleashing the Flood. So there were snags about the omniscience dependent on omnipresence. After Adam and Eve had eaten the apple from the tree of knowledge, they hid themselves among the trees and bush for shame. But God does not know where Adam is:
"And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, where art thou?"--Genesis 3:9
Adam assures the Lord that he heard him coming, but hid himself because he was afraid:
"And he said, who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree and I did eat.--Genesis 3:11-12
God was obviously not in the picture. He did not know where Adam was hiding and he had no idea that Eve had persuaded Adam to eat the apple.
These are not only notorious examples of lack of omniscience. Nor does the fact that he did no know in advance what would happen, fit in with the conception of a timeless God. The world of paradise was easy to survey. He himself, so the scripture says, had produced Adam and Eve, so he must have been able to watch over thier activities. That is something that does not make sense.
After Adam had "known" her, as was to be expected, Even brought cain and Abel into the world. Abel wasa sheperd, Cain a farmer, two crisis-proof and permanently subsidized callings, a clever choice. Two lads bring the Lord an offering. And how does the Lord without fault view them?
" . . . .And the Lord had respect unto Abel and his offering:But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect"--Genesis 4:4-5
Until that moment neither Cain nor Abel had given cause for being judged in different ways. Small wonder that Cain reacted sullenly to this partisan God:
"And the Lorld said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"--Genesis 4:6
An omniscient God would have known about the fraticide to come, but this does not prevent Cain from killing his innocent brother, Abel! He even has to ask for information:
"Where is Abel thy brother?"--Genesis 4:9
The Lord is incapable of stopping a frightful murder! Finally God is so displeased with his handiwork that he has decided to put an end to everything:
"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his hearth. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air, for it repenteth me that i have made them."--Genesis 6:6-7
We can quite understand God´s attitude to the brood which had turned out so badly, but should not the omniscient one have sensed how this were? Not content with his first regrets, he repents anew, after the annihilating Flood, that he has destroyed his whole creation: When Noah had anchored his Ark on a mountain, he kindled a sacrificial fire in gratitude:
"And the Lord smelled a sweet savor; and the Lord said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man´s sake; for the imagination of man´s heart is evil from the youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done."--Genesis 8:11
Belated recognition that his work was faulty! The much-praised omniscient one did not know how his work would turn out? Strange!
If we accpet the biblical Genesis, all men are descendants of Noah and his stepsons and stepdaughters who were on board with him. They were an "elite" which the Lord had considered worthy to survive. Contary to his oath, God felt impelled to smite this brood again with the total destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
My Bible lesson is intended to emphasize, no more and no less, an observation; a divine figure is potrayed who made mistakes, felt regrets and was capable of bloody acts; a God is shown who experiences such terribly human passions as anger, partisan love, and heartlessness. They seem to me to be unGodly attributes. at least they do not fit in with the conception of an imaginary omniscient being, standing above material things, that has been urged on us. I simply want to make clear that the Old Testament God was neither timeless, nor omniscient, nor abstract. I simply want to give examples to show that he took a real part in events, that he was even seen in human guise ". . . walking in the garden in the cool of the day. . ."--Genesis 3:8
qouted from the book of E. Von Daniken
(sorry cant help it Fuse)
On a close inspection the biblical God is not omniscient.The prophet Ezra knew that.God says to him: The signs thou askest for, I can only answer in part. But about thy life I can tell thee nothing, for i do not know it myself." Nor is the biblical God free of errors! In Genesis,God at first says that his work, namely the creation of man, is good:
"And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good,"--Genesis 1:31 But soon regretted his achievement:
"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the Earth, and it grieved him at his heart."--genesis 6:6
In other words God is not certain about what he has done. Finally his handiwork seems to have failed so badly that he destroyes his own creation by unleashing the Flood. So there were snags about the omniscience dependent on omnipresence. After Adam and Eve had eaten the apple from the tree of knowledge, they hid themselves among the trees and bush for shame. But God does not know where Adam is:
"And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, where art thou?"--Genesis 3:9
Adam assures the Lord that he heard him coming, but hid himself because he was afraid:
"And he said, who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree and I did eat.--Genesis 3:11-12
God was obviously not in the picture. He did not know where Adam was hiding and he had no idea that Eve had persuaded Adam to eat the apple.
These are not only notorious examples of lack of omniscience. Nor does the fact that he did no know in advance what would happen, fit in with the conception of a timeless God. The world of paradise was easy to survey. He himself, so the scripture says, had produced Adam and Eve, so he must have been able to watch over thier activities. That is something that does not make sense.
After Adam had "known" her, as was to be expected, Even brought cain and Abel into the world. Abel wasa sheperd, Cain a farmer, two crisis-proof and permanently subsidized callings, a clever choice. Two lads bring the Lord an offering. And how does the Lord without fault view them?
" . . . .And the Lord had respect unto Abel and his offering:But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect"--Genesis 4:4-5
Until that moment neither Cain nor Abel had given cause for being judged in different ways. Small wonder that Cain reacted sullenly to this partisan God:
"And the Lorld said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?"--Genesis 4:6
An omniscient God would have known about the fraticide to come, but this does not prevent Cain from killing his innocent brother, Abel! He even has to ask for information:
"Where is Abel thy brother?"--Genesis 4:9
The Lord is incapable of stopping a frightful murder! Finally God is so displeased with his handiwork that he has decided to put an end to everything:
"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his hearth. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air, for it repenteth me that i have made them."--Genesis 6:6-7
We can quite understand God´s attitude to the brood which had turned out so badly, but should not the omniscient one have sensed how this were? Not content with his first regrets, he repents anew, after the annihilating Flood, that he has destroyed his whole creation: When Noah had anchored his Ark on a mountain, he kindled a sacrificial fire in gratitude:
"And the Lord smelled a sweet savor; and the Lord said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man´s sake; for the imagination of man´s heart is evil from the youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done."--Genesis 8:11
Belated recognition that his work was faulty! The much-praised omniscient one did not know how his work would turn out? Strange!
If we accpet the biblical Genesis, all men are descendants of Noah and his stepsons and stepdaughters who were on board with him. They were an "elite" which the Lord had considered worthy to survive. Contary to his oath, God felt impelled to smite this brood again with the total destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
My Bible lesson is intended to emphasize, no more and no less, an observation; a divine figure is potrayed who made mistakes, felt regrets and was capable of bloody acts; a God is shown who experiences such terribly human passions as anger, partisan love, and heartlessness. They seem to me to be unGodly attributes. at least they do not fit in with the conception of an imaginary omniscient being, standing above material things, that has been urged on us. I simply want to make clear that the Old Testament God was neither timeless, nor omniscient, nor abstract. I simply want to give examples to show that he took a real part in events, that he was even seen in human guise ". . . walking in the garden in the cool of the day. . ."--Genesis 3:8
qouted from the book of E. Von Daniken
(sorry cant help it Fuse)
Only a dead fish goes with the flow
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Hmm, you have some interesting arguements - the whole you can't be timeless as well as omniscience. Anyways, beyond that, maybe there is some taunting going on from God's side. Sure he asks questions, but it could be just like a test of the human faith - telling the truth.
I don't think God originally saw bad in man. And he didn't forsee his creation being used against him (since he created it). Therefore with trust in mind - maybe he chose NOT to be omnicient. Just as God can be, he can equally choose not to be (I'd imagine).
God considering he's a being (even though he's a higher one), has freedom of will. It was his will to create us, create animals, and create an inhabitable planet. Labelling his actions good nor bad is inaccurate. Just as in real life, only our own mental judgement of something decides in our mind of that. Those feelings only lie in us, not outside. Therefore nothing should be labelled, because it requires our own biases.
I also think God touches those whom he loves the most. Through certain scenarios and life altering events (such as my blight w/ cancer, now in remission), he can speak in a way that speaks louder than words ever can. I now enjoy life much more than I had before.
I don't think God originally saw bad in man. And he didn't forsee his creation being used against him (since he created it). Therefore with trust in mind - maybe he chose NOT to be omnicient. Just as God can be, he can equally choose not to be (I'd imagine).
God considering he's a being (even though he's a higher one), has freedom of will. It was his will to create us, create animals, and create an inhabitable planet. Labelling his actions good nor bad is inaccurate. Just as in real life, only our own mental judgement of something decides in our mind of that. Those feelings only lie in us, not outside. Therefore nothing should be labelled, because it requires our own biases.
I also think God touches those whom he loves the most. Through certain scenarios and life altering events (such as my blight w/ cancer, now in remission), he can speak in a way that speaks louder than words ever can. I now enjoy life much more than I had before.
nice one fuse
...now i found an answer with our arguements in school gonna use this explnation...! TY
...now i found an answer with our arguements in school gonna use this explnation...! TYOnly a dead fish goes with the flow
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lol
Clever way to do your homework, Is.
Clever way to do your homework, Is.
Rawr!
Israel said:...now i found an answer with our arguements in school gonna use this explnation...! TYahaha... I feel used, like an old piece of toliet paper
And btw - you're welcome >_<
haha! nice way to do your assignment israel! you just gave me an idea! 
just kiddin 
hmm...on the other hand, i think this is sort of cool, I always have problems in answering essay questions and stuff that is related to religion, and I think that if there are other people giving their ideas and sharing their opininons about this topic...well...i think it will surely help us understand faith more (geesh! if only you guys know how hard our catech subjects are!! the nuns running our place is driving us insane sometimes!) but I guess it also depends...anyway, anything related to religion sometimes creeps me out...seeking for the truth is both exciting...and scary at the same time...
just kiddin hmm...on the other hand, i think this is sort of cool, I always have problems in answering essay questions and stuff that is related to religion, and I think that if there are other people giving their ideas and sharing their opininons about this topic...well...i think it will surely help us understand faith more
(geesh! if only you guys know how hard our catech subjects are!! the nuns running our place is driving us insane sometimes!) but I guess it also depends...anyway, anything related to religion sometimes creeps me out...seeking for the truth is both exciting...and scary at the same time..."Bonum ex integra causa malom ex cuquomque defectu"
a link to dycee's heavenly abode
dycee29@ragnarokhq.com
"Bonum ex integra causa malom ex cuquomque defectu"
a link to dycee's heavenly abode
dycee29@ragnarokhq.com
"Bonum ex integra causa malom ex cuquomque defectu"
fuse said: Israel said:...now i found an answer with our arguements in school gonna use this explnation...! TYahaha... I feel used, like an old piece of toliet paper
And btw - you're welcome >_<
heheh sorry bout that Fuse.......just a strategy..........heheh thought it wont work!
Only a dead fish goes with the flow
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hmm da topic god.....one of da most complicated topics 2 eva discuss bout
believe it or dont believe it
both side have very good reason
i believe
believe it or dont believe it
both side have very good reason
i believe
Yah well it seems like a more intelligent discussion instead of the black and white topics made by atheists and religious people like to refute.
fuse said:educate me Fuse..pls give some examples of these atheists and religous people who kinda like to refute something
?Only a dead fish goes with the flow
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oops... sorry for the late reply.
Well atheists are people who believe in Nothing. Some neo-religious people get in fights with the atheists about the fact there is a God. It's almost as heated and a big waste of time as the topic of abortion is - is the featus a being? If so... then it's murder to have an abortion.
Anyways you get the idea, people have their own opinions and fight each other treating their opinion as fact... >_<
Well atheists are people who believe in Nothing. Some neo-religious people get in fights with the atheists about the fact there is a God. It's almost as heated and a big waste of time as the topic of abortion is - is the featus a being? If so... then it's murder to have an abortion.
Anyways you get the idea, people have their own opinions and fight each other treating their opinion as fact... >_<
I see...most of the communist country too think that religion is just in the mind of people./heh
Only a dead fish goes with the flow
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